There is a stubborn tendency to make generalizations - nay, crude generalizations - about Islam. One of those generalizations holds that women in Islam are all subdued.
But I say to these people - some actuated by malice words by ignorance: Do not write about the Islamic world as if it were all one monolithic bloc. The world is diverse and it is not true that women do not have rights ”over there.”
In some countries, women do lack rights. But those are the exceptions and, unfortunately, in racist Western discourse exceptions for Muslims are often falsely presented as the norm. Citing the Taliban is akin to me citing the survey to malign all Western men.
Such a practice is simply unfounded, based, at best, on ignorance and, at worst, on prejudice.
Most Muslim women have rights to a court if their husband is abusive or any man is abusive toward her. And some Muslim women have secured their rights even both Western women.

Tunisian women, for instance, had the right to an abortion 17 years before the U.S. Supreme Court legalized the surgery nationwide.
Turkey, the fifth most populous Muslim nation, elected a female prime minister. Pakistan, the second most populous, elected a female prime minister twice. Bangladesh, the third most populous, elected two female prime ministers.
And, finally, Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim nation with nearly 300 million Muslim, has elected a female president.

[No, this chic is not Indonesia’s president]
How many women presidents has, say, the United States, France, Australia, Italy, and Spain elected? The list goes on. And Switzerland only gave women the vote in 1970.
“You people have such restrictive dress for women,”
she said, hobbling away in three-inch heels and panty hose
to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day.Hijab Scene #2
E-mails From Scheherazad - Poems by Mohja Kahf
Further, Islam is full with powerful and commanding women like, for instance, Aisha.
So, cease with the cruel and unfounded generalizations. One cannot properly speak about a monolithic ”Islam” or a monolithic ”West.” To seek to present Islam as backward and misogynistic in contrast to the Enlightened West is simply a gross distortion of reality.
No, I’m not bald under the scarf
No, I’m not from that country
where women can’t drive cars
No, I would not like to defect
I’m already American
But thank you for offering
What else do you need to know
relevant to my buying insurance,
opening a bank account,
reserving a seat on a flight?
Yes, I speak English
Yes, I carry explosives
They’re called explosives
They’re called words
And if you don’t get up
Off your assumptions,
They’re going to blow you awayHijab Scene #7
E-mails From Scheherazad - Poems by Mohja Kahf
Author’s Note: the bulk of this post was previously posted as a comment by the author.
Women are have the right to divorce, agreement to marriage, inheritance, ect...
Women even have the entitlement of sexual statisfaction from their husbands.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/Sunshine50910.htm
Also read about the status of women in islam, no wonder many are leaving islam, especially those living in in the western world, as in islamic countries leaving islam carries a death penalty.... if not for this many would have denounced islam long time ago.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles.htm#women
Trust me, there are many more sad stories about the abuse of young girls in America than there are in Pakistan.
If you care to learn anything, you should read this article in The Christian Science Monito: Why European women are turning to Islam.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1227/p01s04-woeu.html
Or this book ”Why Christian Women Convert to Islam” by an Oxford graduate.
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Christian-Women-Convert-Islam/dp/0978714113
Or, finally, this from the Boston Globe: Islam finds Western women to be rising force among converts
http://www.islamfortoday.com/americanmuslimwomen03.htm
And unlike the fundamentalist Christian neo-conversative crackpot site you reference, I cite credible sources.
Islam should be eradicated to liberate women.
So, you advocate for wholesale genocide.
Marco, you must be a recent convert to Islam?
The old timers have much better dodges and obfuscations.
Stick with it awhile and you will be apologizing all over the place as well as taunting infidels about their lack of knowledge about translations and and the 45+ years of constant personal study required to even START to understand Islam and on and on and on....
We all understand and that is what you are fighting against.
Give it up
Again you are hopeless. At least some of the people on this page are interesting. But you just serve on boring comment after another.
And, no, I am not a convert to Islam.
You can say that crap, because you are Marco from US, not Fatima from Ethiopia....
I know what the reality is and I know what the Qur’an says and doesn’t say about women.
Not all women in Muslim countries are equal to men in the statue codes, but most are in practice if not always in theory.
Further, what do you know? Have you ever left Richmond? Can you read Arabic and follow the news there? No, I am certain not.
You just watch Fox News and let vapid broadcasters embed ignorance in your already feeble brain.
Further, if that is the case that is due to the socio-economic problems in the region not to Islam or the culture.
Many Muslim countries are destitute and funding for schools are lacking. Just like in Sub-Saharan Africa, which has the highest rate of illiteracy among women in the entire world.
Yet you would never blame Catholicism - the dominant regional faith - for being the cause of that illiteracy. It would naturally occur to you that socio-economic problems are holding women back. How does such analysis elude when Muslim women suddenly become the topic?
Why must everything in a Muslim country always be viewed and judged by the prism if Islam? Islam is not always the proper paradigm for finding answers. Do not always turn to the Qur’an for every explanation. The Muslim is no different than any other world, meaning that the same political factors that are relevant elsewhere are existant in the region.
Nathalie, if you are a thoughtful person I think you should read the excellent book - by a French scholar no less - by the great Orientalist Maxime Rodinson: La Fascination de l’Islam.
I am sure you can find it in any decent Paris book store since Rodinson is one of the most regarded Orientalists.
In this text, as the title would suggest, Rodinson coins the term ”theolocentrism,” which he defines as the stubbon practice of attributing all observable acts by Muslims to Islamic texts. In other words: Muslim do as they do simply due to the Qur’an.
Rodinson recognized that instead of understanding Muslims are diverse and layered people actuated by myriad factors and the Muslim world likewise, many Western writers have the stubbon tendency to ascribe anything a Muslim may to to the Qur’an whether it is relevant or not. The view is fallacious and it obscures reality and in recent years it has been used to undermine the legitimate grivances that Muslims have towards Israel and U.S. regional policy by falsely dissiming political concerns as nothing more than the ravings of lunatic Muslims.
Please, open your eyes. Read Rodinson, you’ll be doing yourself a favor.
What do you know about Muslim men and women?
Muslim WOMEN ARE FREE!!!!
I AM A MUSLIM - thank god and I AM FREE!
my older sister wears the hijab and she wasnt forced…she did it out of the goodness of her heart.
unfortunately i dont wear it but is still practice my religion!!
i really dont care about wat people think about muslims because i know who we really are
after 9|11 we got accused 4 bombing the towers when it wasnt even us because a muslim would never do such a thing!
What??? it wasn’t even you who bombed the Twin towers.. then who the heck were all those Arabs shouting Allah Akbar when they crashed those planes on 9/11? Please, be real.
ahalan or shalan
Allah ya khaleek, ya ikhatee
ahalan wo shalan
Allah ya khaleek, ya ikhatee
It isn’t that. If a woman if forced to wear it, I agree that is wrong. But most women choose to wear it. That is not an atrocity. Not everyone has to follow Western dress codes.
Just because something is not ”Western” does not mean that it is an ”atrocity.” That is just closed minded fanaticism.
Its easy to sit in a couch and post articles from US. Go stay is Swat for few months and then let us know your views.
Sadaf, we need more and more people like you so that world changes its opinion towards muslims and the Islam.
people think being muslim is easy. JUST ONE WEEK. ONE WEEK ONLY ACCORDING TO ISLAMIC SHARIA STRICTLY WHICH EVER SECT U FOLLOW. I DARE YOU?
how can you say that these accusations are based on ignorance and bias, when we can see all for ourselves - actual footages of people being whipped, hung, torchered, decapitated, human beings slaughtered worse than cattle and women slowly stoned in the most horrific cruel deaths imaginable.
Is it any wonder that the world gets outraged at these every day occurences of inhumane practices in the name of Islam.
You’re at liberty to live in the States, others are not so fortunate to choose where they live.
I know and most other people know its not all muslims, because I have mixed and worked with some very lovely people who were muslims.
Your defensive attitude to Islam stifles your ability to honestly categorise these abuses for what they are as very wrong, unnessarily brutal and quite often unjudicial.
The west is protesting on behalf of victimised muslims and so should you be instead of denigrating and disparaging Islam by accepting these practises.
the women Marco speaks of are the *exception* NOT the rule, while praiseworthy, isn’t saying much.
Do not ever again claim that you care about Muslims since you obviously do not. You engage in nothing but hateful rhetoric against an entire people. You seek no purpose except to malign Muslims.
You are a hateful person.
Those women are not the exception. How is it that the four most populous Muslim nations - with populations totaling more than 631 million people - are the exception? How is Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Yemen, Qatar, Bahrain, ect... the exceptions?
The problem with bigots like you is that you have no interest in having a thoughtful dicussion about women’s rights in the Muslim world. I would recognize that not all is well, but things are not often as they appear in the hostile and racist Western press. But people like have no interest in discussing Islam in a way that does not fit your black-and-white picture of an evil faith.
You have no intention to study the diversity in the region. Whenever people like you bring up Islam - and particularly women in the region - you always turn to repressive exceptions [Iran, Saudi Arabia] in order to ”prove” the rule. You engage in the tactic because you have no interest in honest debate, but, rather, your intention is simply to smear.
That is your way. So, please, spare you empty words of concern towards Muslims. You do not care about them, all you care is to spread lies and hate in order to increase discrimination against Muslims in the West and bring forth a ”clash of civilizations.”
I never said that there aren’t abuses of women in the Muslim world. So do not tell me that I fail to see they are ”wrong.” I do see that and condemn them and I am a strong supporter of women’s rights every where.
My point is that the Western media always seeks to portray the exception as the norm. Abuses in Muslim countries are rare. In fact, abuses of women in the US is higher than that of Muslim women. More American women are raped and beaten by a man than in ANY other Muslim country.
My point is simply and decent people can understand it: The Muslim world is a diverse place and while no everything is perfect, the status of women is more or less on par - and sometimes exceeds -the status of women in the West. Abuses do occur, but condemn for what they are: unfortunate and sad CASES of abuse. Do not malign all of Islam and make grotesque and false generalizations about all Muslim women being submissive because any fair analysis of the region proves otherwise. Most Muslim women are not victims of their society, but they are victims of patronizing Westerners who seek to make judgements about them when they have no idea what their lives are like.
Come to the Muslim world and see for yourself who Muslim women live.
So one Muslim man is violent, does that mean all are.
Using your logic I must assume that you beat up your girlfriend or wife since 20% of American women have been abused in their life.
Is that statistic proof that all Western men are violent sexists?
If no, then why are case examples the rule when it comes to Muslims but not Christians or Jews?
Here is what the Quran says about women.
Surah 4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property. So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge (BEAT) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
See it says men are in charge of women, in other words, Women are not allowed to do anything without permission from her husband or father... but a right is something you do not have to ask permission for.
It says women must obey men
It says if she doesn’t obey she is to be screamed at, put out of her bed and then beaten.
Sound pretty oppressive to me.
Nowhere in the Quran does it say a woman has any rights, but Muslim women insist they do even if they can’t find any.
What do you know what the Qur’an says.
And then you the temerity to cite a Qur’an passage and then place your own word of interpretation. It is true that the Qur’an says that a man can ”scourge” his wife is she fails to heed his advice on the third try.
But scourge is a vague word. How dare you insert your own meaning to the word.
But Muslims need not sit and wonder what scourge actually means. In Islam there is the Qur’an - the word of Allah - and the Hadiths - the sayings and deeds of the Prophet Muhammad [saw]. The Hadith are second only to the Qur’an as a guiding text in Islam.
Pious Muslims look to the Hadith on how to live their lives and to make sense of certain vague passages in the Qur’an.
There are more than one Hadith text. In fact, there are four and all are reliable, but most Muslims simply rely on one due to no particular preference.
The four Hadith texts mostly overlap. So one story is often recorded in another Hadith text with a slight alteration of words, and so. It is proper to look at the Hadith texts as more or less the same content just a different publisher since at the time of their composing there were four men who recorded the Prophet’s sayings and deeds.
Now you say that scourge means ”beat,” but the Prophet Muhammad - the perfect Muslim - was in fact asked about what this word meant. His response is recorded in two of the Hadiths. In one of the them the Prophet grabbed a horse hair and lightly moved the thin hair across his arm and said this is to scourge. In the another Hadith, the Prophet’s response was to pick a feather and lightly move it across his hand and say this is the scourge. The Prophet never raised a hand toward any of his wives and he was making it clear that under no circumstances is a man allowed to ”beat” his wife as the Prophet himself demonstrated through the gentle use of a feather or horse’s hair. To scourge is not to beat.
That is what Islam says.
I do not understand the arrogance and the temerity of non-Muslims who know not a word of Arabic and yet assume the position of an expert in the faith.
004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
You tried to besmirch my claim when you already knew what it said, so just more of your Islamic obfuscations. So here is a hadith that explains that passage.
Tabari IX:113 ”Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Put your citations for hadith here. some of the acceptable ones are from Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, Malik’s Muwatta, and remember that Tabari can also be used and that many times the Hadith make what is in the Quran sound even more cruel and violent than it already is in the Quran. So be careful when you are trying to deflect and dodge and apologize your way out.
No matter how hard you try, you can’t clean that up.
Is ”having the rights” synonymous to ”exercising the rights”?
I just checked the websters for ’scourge’ - it says ’severe punishment’, ’anything causing suffering’. I don’t find it a ’vague’ word. And going by your suggestion that ’scourge’ is a vague word, one can interpret it the way one likes it. Right? So there is nothing daring about this.
I have nothing against pious Muslims, and absolutely nothing against Muslim women, (I am proud of the Muslim women who could rear their head up, and I am sad for the oppressed women). But I am quite skeptic after what happened in my country recently. Does your religion teach you belligerence and teach you to kill people who want to follow religion of their choice?
What you will find is...the 3 options for non-Muslims are #1 die #2 pay the Jizyah tax to remain alive or #3 convert.
Most passages that speak of non-Muslims are full of disgust and rancor and the superiority of Muslims over them.
***Here are just a few or the examples of the tolerance and peace.***
Qur’an:8:12 ”I shall terrorize the unbelievers. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 ”The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive.”
Bukhari:V1B1N6 ”Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Qur’an:8:7 ”Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ’Wipe the pagans out to the last.’”
Ishaq:322 ”I will cast terror into the hearts of those who reject Me. So strike off their heads and cut off their fingers. All who oppose Me and My Prophet shall be punished severely.”
Ishaq:515 ”The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ’Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
Ishaq:595 ”The Apostle said, ’Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.’”
Ishaq:496 ”Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.’ So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ’Tell the Apostle the truth.’”
Qur’an:9:5 ”Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:9:112 ”The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an:2:244 ”Fight in Allah’s Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all.”
Qur’an:61:4 ”Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause.”
Next you will say that I altered it but I did not, the books are there for all to see.
Then you will say I took it out of context, but there is only one context, the context of Muslim domination.
Just like anyone else in the world, people do and say what they believe to be appropriate and good. Sure, to me it is odd that the people I am friends with in Singapore pray 5 times per day and feel they must respect elders, even if the elder is an ass. But, I am more than quite sure that they find it very strange when I tell my parents or grandparents what I am going to do rather than asking them IF I can do it.
None of the ladies I know in Singapore wear the scarf unless they go to an event which calls for it, or if they go back to their parents countries for a visit or something.
There is no emergency in Islamic Countries that calls for us to be heroes to the poor women, they don’t want, or need the help.
You have still never shown 1 thing to the contrary.
Some men who happen to be Muslim may not choose to be oppressive to women, but that is a personal choice, it has nothing to do with Islam.
But for all the men who want to be oppressive and abusive, they have LOTS of evidence on their side to justify it.
Instead of being on here trying to convince non believers of something that is just not there, maybe you should be trying to convince Muslims that they are wrong in their translations and understandings.
The fact that you can not deny any of it is what you are pissed about.
There are 14 more translations and they all say BEAT, so you are saying that ALL of the translators were stupid and ONLY you know and understand Arabic?
I think I will trust the 17 degree carrying translators instead of you, as will everyone else I am sure.
Local Opinions (44)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/Sunshine50910.htm
Also read about the status of women in islam, no wonder many are leaving islam, especially those living in in the western world, as in islamic countries leaving islam carries a death penalty.... if not for this many would have denounced islam long time ago.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles.htm#women
You can say that crap, because you are Marco from US, not Fatima from Ethiopia....
Here is what the Quran says about women.
Surah 4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property. So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge (BEAT) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
See it says men are in charge of women, in other words, Women are not allowed to do anything without permission from her husband or father... but a right is something you do not have to ask permission for.
It says women must obey men
It says if she doesn’t obey she is to be screamed at, put out of her bed and then beaten.
Sound pretty oppressive to me.
Nowhere in the Quran does it say a woman has any rights, but Muslim women insist they do even if they can’t find any.
What??? it wasn’t even you who bombed the Twin towers.. then who the heck were all those Arabs shouting Allah Akbar when they crashed those planes on 9/11? Please, be real.
the women Marco speaks of are the *exception* NOT the rule, while praiseworthy, isn’t saying much.
Unfortunately violence against women does occur, but it is far and few between. Further, what about the abuse of women in the West.
In the United States, 20% of women claim to have been abused by a boyfriend or spouse at least once in their lives. The doyen of American feminism - Betty Friedan - herself admitted that she was the victim of abuse.
If I were to cite those statistics - or individual cases in, say, Australia - as ”proof” that all Western men are sexist and Western society is violent, you would attack for me generalizations and accuse me of unfounded reductive reasoning. And rightly so.
What makes Muslim culture an exception to such logic?
Trust me, there are many more sad stories about the abuse of young girls in America than there are in Pakistan.
So, you advocate for wholesale genocide.
I know what the reality is and I know what the Qur’an says and doesn’t say about women.
Not all women in Muslim countries are equal to men in the statue codes, but most are in practice if not always in theory.
Further, what do you know? Have you ever left Richmond? Can you read Arabic and follow the news there? No, I am certain not.
You just watch Fox News and let vapid broadcasters embed ignorance in your already feeble brain.
What do you know about Muslim men and women?
It isn’t that. If a woman if forced to wear it, I agree that is wrong. But most women choose to wear it. That is not an atrocity. Not everyone has to follow Western dress codes.
Just because something is not ”Western” does not mean that it is an ”atrocity.” That is just closed minded fanaticism.
Marco, you must be a recent convert to Islam?
The old timers have much better dodges and obfuscations.
Stick with it awhile and you will be apologizing all over the place as well as taunting infidels about their lack of knowledge about translations and and the 45+ years of constant personal study required to even START to understand Islam and on and on and on....
We all understand and that is what you are fighting against.
Give it up
Do not ever again claim that you care about Muslims since you obviously do not. You engage in nothing but hateful rhetoric against an entire people. You seek no purpose except to malign Muslims.
You are a hateful person.
Those women are not the exception. How is it that the four most populous Muslim nations - with populations totaling more than 631 million people - are the exception? How is Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Yemen, Qatar, Bahrain, ect... the exceptions?
The problem with bigots like you is that you have no interest in having a thoughtful dicussion about women’s rights in the Muslim world. I would recognize that not all is well, but things are not often as they appear in the hostile and racist Western press. But people like have no interest in discussing Islam in a way that does not fit your black-and-white picture of an evil faith.
You have no intention to study the diversity in the region. Whenever people like you bring up Islam - and particularly women in the region - you always turn to repressive exceptions [Iran, Saudi Arabia] in order to ”prove” the rule. You engage in the tactic because you have no interest in honest debate, but, rather, your intention is simply to smear.
That is your way. So, please, spare you empty words of concern towards Muslims. You do not care about them, all you care is to spread lies and hate in order to increase discrimination against Muslims in the West and bring forth a ”clash of civilizations.”
What do you know what the Qur’an says.
And then you the temerity to cite a Qur’an passage and then place your own word of interpretation. It is true that the Qur’an says that a man can ”scourge” his wife is she fails to heed his advice on the third try.
But scourge is a vague word. How dare you insert your own meaning to the word.
But Muslims need not sit and wonder what scourge actually means. In Islam there is the Qur’an - the word of Allah - and the Hadiths - the sayings and deeds of the Prophet Muhammad [saw]. The Hadith are second only to the Qur’an as a guiding text in Islam.
Pious Muslims look to the Hadith on how to live their lives and to make sense of certain vague passages in the Qur’an.
There are more than one Hadith text. In fact, there are four and all are reliable, but most Muslims simply rely on one due to no particular preference.
The four Hadith texts mostly overlap. So one story is often recorded in another Hadith text with a slight alteration of words, and so. It is proper to look at the Hadith texts as more or less the same content just a different publisher since at the time of their composing there were four men who recorded the Prophet’s sayings and deeds.
Now you say that scourge means ”beat,” but the Prophet Muhammad - the perfect Muslim - was in fact asked about what this word meant. His response is recorded in two of the Hadiths. In one of the them the Prophet grabbed a horse hair and lightly moved the thin hair across his arm and said this is to scourge. In the another Hadith, the Prophet’s response was to pick a feather and lightly move it across his hand and say this is the scourge. The Prophet never raised a hand toward any of his wives and he was making it clear that under no circumstances is a man allowed to ”beat” his wife as the Prophet himself demonstrated through the gentle use of a feather or horse’s hair. To scourge is not to beat.
That is what Islam says.
I do not understand the arrogance and the temerity of non-Muslims who know not a word of Arabic and yet assume the position of an expert in the faith.
So one Muslim man is violent, does that mean all are.
Using your logic I must assume that you beat up your girlfriend or wife since 20% of American women have been abused in their life.
Is that statistic proof that all Western men are violent sexists?
If no, then why are case examples the rule when it comes to Muslims but not Christians or Jews?
I never said that there aren’t abuses of women in the Muslim world. So do not tell me that I fail to see they are ”wrong.” I do see that and condemn them and I am a strong supporter of women’s rights every where.
My point is that the Western media always seeks to portray the exception as the norm. Abuses in Muslim countries are rare. In fact, abuses of women in the US is higher than that of Muslim women. More American women are raped and beaten by a man than in ANY other Muslim country.
My point is simply and decent people can understand it: The Muslim world is a diverse place and while no everything is perfect, the status of women is more or less on par - and sometimes exceeds -the status of women in the West. Abuses do occur, but condemn for what they are: unfortunate and sad CASES of abuse. Do not malign all of Islam and make grotesque and false generalizations about all Muslim women being submissive because any fair analysis of the region proves otherwise. Most Muslim women are not victims of their society, but they are victims of patronizing Westerners who seek to make judgements about them when they have no idea what their lives are like.
Come to the Muslim world and see for yourself who Muslim women live.
ahalan or shalan
Allah ya khaleek, ya ikhatee
ahalan wo shalan
Allah ya khaleek, ya ikhatee
If you care to learn anything, you should read this article in The Christian Science Monito: Why European women are turning to Islam.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1227/p01s04-woeu.html
Or this book ”Why Christian Women Convert to Islam” by an Oxford graduate.
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Christian-Women-Convert-Islam/dp/0978714113
Or, finally, this from the Boston Globe: Islam finds Western women to be rising force among converts
http://www.islamfortoday.com/americanmuslimwomen03.htm
And unlike the fundamentalist Christian neo-conversative crackpot site you reference, I cite credible sources.
Women are have the right to divorce, agreement to marriage, inheritance, ect...
Women even have the entitlement of sexual statisfaction from their husbands.
Further, if that is the case that is due to the socio-economic problems in the region not to Islam or the culture.
Many Muslim countries are destitute and funding for schools are lacking. Just like in Sub-Saharan Africa, which has the highest rate of illiteracy among women in the entire world.
Yet you would never blame Catholicism - the dominant regional faith - for being the cause of that illiteracy. It would naturally occur to you that socio-economic problems are holding women back. How does such analysis elude when Muslim women suddenly become the topic?
Why must everything in a Muslim country always be viewed and judged by the prism if Islam? Islam is not always the proper paradigm for finding answers. Do not always turn to the Qur’an for every explanation. The Muslim is no different than any other world, meaning that the same political factors that are relevant elsewhere are existant in the region.
Nathalie, if you are a thoughtful person I think you should read the excellent book - by a French scholar no less - by the great Orientalist Maxime Rodinson: La Fascination de l’Islam.
I am sure you can find it in any decent Paris book store since Rodinson is one of the most regarded Orientalists.
In this text, as the title would suggest, Rodinson coins the term ”theolocentrism,” which he defines as the stubbon practice of attributing all observable acts by Muslims to Islamic texts. In other words: Muslim do as they do simply due to the Qur’an.
Rodinson recognized that instead of understanding Muslims are diverse and layered people actuated by myriad factors and the Muslim world likewise, many Western writers have the stubbon tendency to ascribe anything a Muslim may to to the Qur’an whether it is relevant or not. The view is fallacious and it obscures reality and in recent years it has been used to undermine the legitimate grivances that Muslims have towards Israel and U.S. regional policy by falsely dissiming political concerns as nothing more than the ravings of lunatic Muslims.
Please, open your eyes. Read Rodinson, you’ll be doing yourself a favor.
If you really believe that 95% of Muslim women are abused and have appointed yourself a sociologist who is now excusing Western abuses, because, alas, 20% is ”standard,” then you are hopeless and further engagement with you is futile.
Again you are hopeless. At least some of the people on this page are interesting. But you just serve on boring comment after another.
And, no, I am not a convert to Islam.
004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
You tried to besmirch my claim when you already knew what it said, so just more of your Islamic obfuscations. So here is a hadith that explains that passage.
Tabari IX:113 ”Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Put your citations for hadith here. some of the acceptable ones are from Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, Malik’s Muwatta, and remember that Tabari can also be used and that many times the Hadith make what is in the Quran sound even more cruel and violent than it already is in the Quran. So be careful when you are trying to deflect and dodge and apologize your way out.
No matter how hard you try, you can’t clean that up.
What you will find is...the 3 options for non-Muslims are #1 die #2 pay the Jizyah tax to remain alive or #3 convert.
Most passages that speak of non-Muslims are full of disgust and rancor and the superiority of Muslims over them.
***Here are just a few or the examples of the tolerance and peace.***
Qur’an:8:12 ”I shall terrorize the unbelievers. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 ”The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive.”
Bukhari:V1B1N6 ”Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Qur’an:8:7 ”Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ’Wipe the pagans out to the last.’”
Ishaq:322 ”I will cast terror into the hearts of those who reject Me. So strike off their heads and cut off their fingers. All who oppose Me and My Prophet shall be punished severely.”
Ishaq:515 ”The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ’Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
Ishaq:595 ”The Apostle said, ’Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.’”
Ishaq:496 ”Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.’ So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ’Tell the Apostle the truth.’”
Qur’an:9:5 ”Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:9:112 ”The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an:2:244 ”Fight in Allah’s Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all.”
Qur’an:61:4 ”Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause.”
Next you will say that I altered it but I did not, the books are there for all to see.
Then you will say I took it out of context, but there is only one context, the context of Muslim domination.
There are 14 more translations and they all say BEAT, so you are saying that ALL of the translators were stupid and ONLY you know and understand Arabic?
I think I will trust the 17 degree carrying translators instead of you, as will everyone else I am sure.
The fact that you can not deny any of it is what you are pissed about.
You have still never shown 1 thing to the contrary.
Some men who happen to be Muslim may not choose to be oppressive to women, but that is a personal choice, it has nothing to do with Islam.
But for all the men who want to be oppressive and abusive, they have LOTS of evidence on their side to justify it.
Instead of being on here trying to convince non believers of something that is just not there, maybe you should be trying to convince Muslims that they are wrong in their translations and understandings.
Global Opinions (15)
Islam should be eradicated to liberate women.
Muslim WOMEN ARE FREE!!!!
I AM A MUSLIM - thank god and I AM FREE!
i really dont care about wat people think about muslims because i know who we really are
after 9|11 we got accused 4 bombing the towers when it wasnt even us because a muslim would never do such a thing!
how can you say that these accusations are based on ignorance and bias, when we can see all for ourselves - actual footages of people being whipped, hung, torchered, decapitated, human beings slaughtered worse than cattle and women slowly stoned in the most horrific cruel deaths imaginable.
Is it any wonder that the world gets outraged at these every day occurences of inhumane practices in the name of Islam.
You’re at liberty to live in the States, others are not so fortunate to choose where they live.
I know and most other people know its not all muslims, because I have mixed and worked with some very lovely people who were muslims.
Your defensive attitude to Islam stifles your ability to honestly categorise these abuses for what they are as very wrong, unnessarily brutal and quite often unjudicial.
The west is protesting on behalf of victimised muslims and so should you be instead of denigrating and disparaging Islam by accepting these practises.
Is ”having the rights” synonymous to ”exercising the rights”?
I just checked the websters for ’scourge’ - it says ’severe punishment’, ’anything causing suffering’. I don’t find it a ’vague’ word. And going by your suggestion that ’scourge’ is a vague word, one can interpret it the way one likes it. Right? So there is nothing daring about this.
I have nothing against pious Muslims, and absolutely nothing against Muslim women, (I am proud of the Muslim women who could rear their head up, and I am sad for the oppressed women). But I am quite skeptic after what happened in my country recently. Does your religion teach you belligerence and teach you to kill people who want to follow religion of their choice?
my older sister wears the hijab and she wasnt forced…she did it out of the goodness of her heart.
unfortunately i dont wear it but is still practice my religion!!
Just like anyone else in the world, people do and say what they believe to be appropriate and good. Sure, to me it is odd that the people I am friends with in Singapore pray 5 times per day and feel they must respect elders, even if the elder is an ass. But, I am more than quite sure that they find it very strange when I tell my parents or grandparents what I am going to do rather than asking them IF I can do it.
None of the ladies I know in Singapore wear the scarf unless they go to an event which calls for it, or if they go back to their parents countries for a visit or something.
There is no emergency in Islamic Countries that calls for us to be heroes to the poor women, they don’t want, or need the help.
Its easy to sit in a couch and post articles from US. Go stay is Swat for few months and then let us know your views.
Sadaf, we need more and more people like you so that world changes its opinion towards muslims and the Islam.
people think being muslim is easy. JUST ONE WEEK. ONE WEEK ONLY ACCORDING TO ISLAMIC SHARIA STRICTLY WHICH EVER SECT U FOLLOW. I DARE YOU?
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Unfortunately violence against women does occur, but it is far and few between. Further, what about the abuse of women in the West.
In the United States, 20% of women claim to have been abused by a boyfriend or spouse at least once in their lives. The doyen of American feminism - Betty Friedan - herself admitted that she was the victim of abuse.
If I were to cite those statistics - or individual cases in, say, Australia - as ”proof” that all Western men are sexist and Western society is violent, you would attack for me generalizations and accuse me of unfounded reductive reasoning. And rightly so.
What makes Muslim culture an exception to such logic?
If you really believe that 95% of Muslim women are abused and have appointed yourself a sociologist who is now excusing Western abuses, because, alas, 20% is ”standard,” then you are hopeless and further engagement with you is futile.